Wichita State looking into women’s basketball transfers

[1972Shocker]

If the "right thing" to do is to terminate Adams, Sexton, and Endicott, that could create total chaos in the athletic department for an extended period of time.

Change is not always bad especially if the change results in a major upgrade in quality. I think you are way overstating the importance of Adams and Endicott. They are not very important in the big picture. Keep Sexton around as a figurehead, glad-hander and a fund-raiser if you need to.

IMO, holding people accountable and doing the what is right is almost always better in the long-run and minimizes the chances of even bigger problems down the road.

But I suppose that is the point of the discussion -- what is right? And where do these student-athletes fit in assuming the charges of mistreatment and abuse are accurate?
Are they at least owed a sincere apology and a small amount of respect and decency? Even that small gesture might take the edge off the frustration and anger that has built to the point of eruption among the parents of these players.

[1972Shocker]

Sheesh, what a mess.

Amen, Brother!

[1972Shocker]

While I agree with the take of @RoyalShock as to what should happen I also acknowledge that the fact of the matter is that it did not happen. So it is really more an exercise in saying what should have happened.

What did happen was that Wichita State, rightly or wrongly, made the decision to retain Jody Adams and make a few minor tweaks to the program. Will all of this angst and criticism make a difference in how Jody operates? In other words will she be scared straight? Only time will tell.

Will the NCAA get involved in any meaningful way? Only time will tell.

If the NCAA does not get involved in a meaningful way will that be the end of it or will it then escalate to the next level? Which would be ironic because WSU may have been trying to avoid legal entanglements by taking the action they did. Again only time will tell.

Someone, much more astute than myself (not saying much I know), commented to me the other day -- Nobody cares. It's women's basketball. Could be that is what the WSU administration was banking on although they may have underestimated the anger and frustration of some of these parents.

[shocker_67]

We have discussed the obvious responsibility of administration to these student-athletes, there's no doubt there in my mind, but, one group we have not heard from at all and also stood by quiet would be the Asst Coaches. Who were the Assistant Coaches at the time of that 2012 tape? I would be curious to hear what some of the young Asst Coaches who still would like to have an unblemished career and maybe did not approve of such antics. Was that the year Guffey left (maybe there was a reason she left) or did she leave the previous year? and I have heard nothing regarding current coaches asst. coaches, I wonder if they ever addressed any concerns to Sexton.......

[1972Shocker]

We have discussed the obvious responsibility of administration to these student-athletes, there's no doubt there in my mind, but, one group we have not heard from at all and also stood by quiet would be the Asst Coaches. Who were the Assistant Coaches at the time of that 2012 tape? I would be curious to hear what some of the young Asst Coaches who still would like to have an unblemished career and maybe did not approve of such antics. Was that the year Guffey left (maybe there was a reason she left) or did she leave the previous year? and I have heard nothing regarding current coaches asst. coaches, I wonder if they ever addressed any concerns to Sexton.......

Dana Eikenberg was hired has a DOBO for the 2011-12 season. She was promoted to an assistant coach in 2012-13. So Kristy Guffey left between the end of the 2011-12 season and the beginning of the 2012-13 season. I think one of the players on the recording mentioned Dana's promotion to an assistant coach position.

[shocker_67]

The sad thing is that these young ladies hate it that they are leaving also. They loved Wichita State, especially the fans, and they loved Wichita. Both Michaela and Moriah had plans to live and work in Wichita after completing their careers at Wichita State. But at some point it just becomes more than you can endure and you have to make a change for your own well-being.

I understand that Michaela's photo was taken down in the locker room .........to be added to her records that are now lost.....will her name be removed off the roster like Molly O'Brien.....I have listened to that tape at least 5 times now (get more disgusted each time) and then I think of the push ups, three girls at the end of the season last year (15 in 3 yrs from program - tape) and four (two starters) this year, there is DEFINITELY more to all of this.

I too have heard of Dap and Mo's plans of living and working in Wichita after graduation and how much they enjoyed the community/fans............I can't imagine how those young ladies feel right now........it truly sickens me that our athletes are being put in these kinds of positions of no fault of their own but rather by the poor decisions of those in authority.

[oldtimewomen's hoopcoach]

While I agree with the take of @RoyalShock as to what should happen I also acknowledge that the fact of the matter is that it did not happen. So it is really more an exercise in saying what should have happened.

What did happen was that Wichita State, rightly or wrongly, made the decision to retain Jody Adams and make a few minor tweaks to the program. Will all of this angst and criticism make a difference in how Jody operates? In other words will she be scared straight? Only time will tell.

Will the NCAA get involved in any meaningful way? Only time will tell.

If the NCAA does not get involved in a meaningful way will that be the end of it or will it then escalate to the next level? Which would be ironic because WSU may have been trying to avoid legal entanglements by taking the action they did. Again only time will tell.

Someone, much more astute than myself (not saying much I know), commented to me the other day -- Nobody cares. It's women's basketball. Could be that is what the WSU administration was banking on although they may have underestimated the anger and frustration of some of these parents.

Thank you 1972 for not mentioning me. I'm the so-called astute one. Yes, I played or sat for the greatest men's coach in history, my wife played D-I and as she said, nobody cares about women's sports. She's not bitter, just knows where the money flows. I am not from Wichita, am an old former player, and coach of both boys and girls as I've said for years. I got interested in WSU womens hoops 7 years ago or so, when Tennessee alum, Jody arrived, as I travel the country and have seen mens and womens hoops all over. I no longer do my walks at Koch, as I'm appalled with all that has happened. I'm not a lawyer or know what the money issues are with keeping Jody or letting her go; I do know I have gotten to know many players and they trust me, because, I played a long time ago, I have coached and support their hard work and effort. I will say this. I believe Alex has made her Phoenix Mercury team; first ever at WSU. If she speaks out and supports Jody and states the program gave her a boost to where she is. Case closed. If she stays silent. Her silence to me, speaks volumes. What pro would not ask all to support their school. Cleanthony Early has spoken about WSU in his NBA interviews as the greatest thing that ever happened to him and he doubts it could be replicated. What will Alex say or not. Everyone wants proof. Alex has been silent, so has Kelsey, the winningest player in WSU history. If Alex and kelsey speak out and tell all of us we are out of line, or go public in some way and support their former WSU coach. Again, Case closed and stop the nonsense. They remain silent, to date and that tells me; an old guy whose been around the hoop circuit a lot!!

[ShockdaWorld]

There is no way I could state it so precisely and eloquently as @RoyalShock did. So I will just say -- Ditto.

It is not just a matter of guilt that is the issue. What kind of an environment do you want to provide for your student-athletes to thrive in?

Assuming that these players are being mostly truthful and accurate in what they have described in the various reports about this issue and in the audio recording what do you think should happen?

I think appropriate disciplinary action needs to happen, up to and possibly including termination. I say possibly, because I don't know what the legal ramifications would be if termination were to occur. I feel like at a minimum, the student athletes should be apologized to publicly or privately, depending on their personal preference, not hers or the administrations preference. If termination is not possible due to a lack of hard proof to terminate for cause, then the amount of transparency for the program needs to increase dramatically. I don't know if that would be including a student only representative for the team that reports directly to the president or something else, but it needs to be something that would allow for zero misinterpretation on the part of anyone. And I'm not talking about someone the girls can go talk to, but someone that is there every day, every step of the way to insure that the student athletes are not being put in an unfair or abusive situation. I believe the student athletes MUST be taken care of. It's sad that up to this point they haven't been heard or had their complaints handled properly. I hope they all have found or will find better as they've moved on. I hope that something is done to make sure that all future student athletes are handled more correctly.

[Aargh]

Ignoring the health issues is appalling. Risking permanent injury and even death to win games is beyond evil. "Coach, I can't breathe" is something that should be taken seriously.

And yet, when the players and parents first started posting here, the main concern they expressed was the mental abuse and demeaning treatment. The issue of ignoring injuries came to light, but it seemed to be a secondary complaint from those who had problems with the program.

There is a record of how serious the injury issues were. There is no record of how serious the mental issues were. It speaks volumes that both players and parents brought up the mental issues before they got into the health issues.

The audio of the injury issues puts some perspective on the mental issues. When people complain, they tend to lead with the big issues. If the mental abuse is a bigger issue than the injury problem, then the problem in WBB is beyond serious.

[shocker_67]

Ignoring the health issues is appalling. Risking permanent injury and even death to win games is beyond evil. "Coach, I can't breathe" is something that should be taken seriously.

And yet, when the players and parents first started posting here, the main concern they expressed was the mental abuse and demeaning treatment. The issue of ignoring injuries came to light, but it seemed to be a secondary complaint from those who had problems with the program.

There is a record of how serious the injury issues were. There is no record of how serious the mental issues were. It speaks volumes that both players and parents brought up the mental issues before they got into the health issues.

The audio of the injury issues puts some perspective on the mental issues. When people complain, they tend to lead with the big issues. If the mental abuse is a bigger issue than the injury problem, then the problem in WBB is beyond serious.

As cruel as the neglect has been on the physical injuries, I only to shudder what the manipulation and mental abuse could curtail......

[shocker_67]

Or perhaps there isn't anything to this, there never was, there never will be, and all we have is a bunch of kids not cut out to play here with over-zealous parents blinded by only looking out for their kids. It amazes me that hardly anybody here even gives that possibility a thought.

For someone who knew so much and saw so much as was one of Jody's biggest cheerleaders you are quiet.....how many other people knew what was going on in offices, locker rooms, and in practices and never once did their duty of stepping forward and saying this is wrong, I want no part of it.......I would like to hear from some of the assistant coaches or former assistant coaches............this many years and this many people ...trainers, weight room assistants, grad assistant...nobody once came forward and said...that girl is hurt and shouldn't be practicing or that girl has been throwing up continuously maybe we should stop or that girl can't breathe.....I heard a rumor and I pray it was a rumor was there a player that left practice in an ambulance? or maybe they did come forward and it fell on deaf ears from administration, be very curious to know.....what all was found on that "listening/liablity" tour........not sure how you can listen to almost 40 people and not have a record of any kind....not buying that.....don't think Julie can remember that many detailed notes without using some writing tool

[The Mad Hatter]

Not to diminish either category, but that read on what the recent emphasis on emotional abuse means seems implausible to me. If anything, the fact that the 2012 incident was about injuries while the more recent accusations have been about mental/emotional issues would be more likely, objectively, to indicate that there may have been improvement in the handling of the injury side of things (even if not what every party considers ideal).

The reality is that the injury issues are much easier to substantiate and more objective in nature. It is why the 2012 stuff has drawn more consensus than the more recent accusations. If that behavior had continued unchanged, it presumably would have been the forefront issue on all the charges now. Rather than the mental/emotional charges being at the forefront serving as proof that these are horrific beyond belief, it seems more likely to indicate that the more consensual, objective injury complaints of the past were less on the table to be part of the grounds for accusation than previously.

This does not mean that the mental/emotional charges are not serious in their own right, nor that all of the injury stuff was resolved. Nonetheless, the read that the lack of focus on the injury issues more recently is more likely to be a bad sign than a sign that those issues were less pronounced than in the past seems like massive message board hyperbole. If nothing improved on that front since 2012 and parents weren't focusing on that, but instead focusing on more vague mental abuse accusations, I would seriously wonder what they were thinking and why the most demonstrable and serious charges were not being prioritized.

It would be like a prosecutor focusing on a perjury charge when there is evidence the suspect committed murder. The lack of focus on the murder charge wouldn't convince me that it must have been an unspeakable level of lying under oath for it to get more attention than murder. It would convince me that either the evidence on the murder charge wasn't very strong or the prosecutor had no idea what he was doing.

[shockerfanmas]

I think at this point we can all agree that no matter what the end result is, there are several among the athletic department whose reputations are now tarnished. Jody, Eric, and Becky being 3 of the top. I just can't see how any good will ever come out of this

[VOTS]

For someone who knew so much and saw so much as was one of Jody's biggest cheerleaders you are quiet.....how many other people knew what was going on in offices, locker rooms, and in practices and never once did their duty of stepping forward and saying this is wrong, I want no part of it.......I would like to hear from some of the assistant coaches or former assistant coaches............this many years and this many people ...trainers, weight room assistants, grad assistant...nobody once came forward and said...that girl is hurt and shouldn't be practicing or that girl has been throwing up continuously maybe we should stop or that girl can't breathe.....I heard a rumor and I pray it was a rumor was there a player that left practice in an ambulance? or maybe they did come forward and it fell on deaf ears from administration, be very curious to know.....what all was found on that "listening/liablity" tour........not sure how you can listen to almost 40 people and not have a record of any kind....not buying that.....don't think Julie can remember that many detailed notes without using some writing tool

The honest answer is because I never saw or heard of anything close to these things ever happening. That's the end of it for me on this. There's entirely too much we don't know, and some of what is known can't be brought up here anyway.

[playball]

To much we don't know, I think the tape tells us all we need to know!